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Concerns about NASA's proposed budget cuts and the potential impact on U.S. interests

SCOTT DETROW, HOST:

The group of nearly 300 current and former employees at NASA published what they called the Voyager Declaration. It is a scathing letter rebuking cuts to the agency's budget proposed by the Trump administration. It says the proposed cuts, quote, "threaten to waste public resources, compromise human safety, weaken national security and undermine the core NASA mission." The cuts were proposed by the Trump administration in May and, if enacted, would slash nearly a quarter of NASA's budget in the next fiscal year. Many of them target fundamental science research, funding fields like planetary science, astrophysics and heliophysics. Now, the budget has not passed yet. However, certain parts of NASA are already preparing to shut down. Joining us now is Pamela Melroy. She was deputy administrator of NASA during the Biden administration. Welcome to the program.

PAMELA MELROY: Thanks, Scott.

DETROW: What was your reaction to this letter and some of the specifics raised in it?

MELROY: Actually, I think it was right on the money. It seems to be a pretty serious misunderstanding on the part of this administration. The expectation is that industry is going to do all the research and development, but the truth is you can't do applied research unless you have something to start with, right? You start with the fundamental science, and then it moves into an applied research area. And so it's so important that the federal government, in order to keep our economy moving, in order to make sure that we have the strength that we needed for the economy in the future, and that future R & D will keep us at the top, that we do that applied - or fundamental science right now.

DETROW: I mean, I do want to ask - there are many people in the country who do want to see the size of the federal government shrink, and NASA is an agency that has had a lot of success in the last few decades, for instance, kind of privatizing a lot of the basic rocket work. Is there anything in the proposed cuts that you think maybe that is something to think about?

MELROY: Well, I always think that there are opportunities out there. Certainly, when administrator, Senator Bill Nelson, and I were at the helm, we were very interested in making sure that we were applying rigorous program management techniques. In other words, if you had a program that was failing, you needed to end it. I think the other challenge is that it's difficult when you start moving into new areas like AI and quantum and things like that. The temptation is to start new things without ending other things. I think a more rigorous approach - looking ahead at the future in a more graceful transition - certainly, if somebody had asked us to cut 10% of the workforce, I think we would have done it much more efficiently.

DETROW: You have seen the Trump administration target and shut down all kinds of scientific research, particularly research tied to things like climate change. How do you think about these proposed cuts and changes that have already happened at NASA in that context? Is that a specific concern for you?

MELROY: Yeah, it's very much a concern. I think there's - again, this is just - the problem is when a political narrative overcomes the facts. And the truth is that the changes, you can debate whether they're, you know, human-created or not, but the fact is that the Earth is changing. And one of the challenges is - to really understand that, we have to be looking at the Earth as a system from space. You simply can't instrument every square meter of the Earth. So if you really want to understand what's happening and have better models and predictions for the future, you really need to do it from space.

But companies are understanding this is a financial risk to them for the future. I mean, it's affecting national security with facilities that are on the water and, you know, rising sea levels, the more extreme weather, etc., etc. These things are a part of keeping America strong and our businesses strong, and so cutting back on research in that area means that we're flying blind.

DETROW: You're talking about choices that should be being made, need to be being made. Obviously, somebody has to make those choices. This is an agency that does not have a full-time administrator. The initial pick was withdrawn by the Trump administration as kind of fallout from President Trump's breakup with Elon Musk. You now have the Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy as the acting administrator. You worked closely with Administrator Nelson. How important is a full-time administrator to all of this, or is that something that you think can be done by somebody multitasking?

MELROY: I am relieved, to be honest with you, to have an acting administrator who is somebody who is plugged into the White House, who at least the agency can go with the top and the most critical issues, that there's somebody from Congress to call and to call Congress to work some of these really big things out. But yes, much of the important work of the agency is probably going to sit at a standstill until some of these budget issues and other things are resolved. So I think, actually, having Secretary Duffy as acting administrator is certainly better than having a career who is not plugged in politically. But in the end, it is going to be very important to get a full-time administrator.

DETROW: You know, not everything is being cut. There's proposed increased spending on human space flight. Obviously, there's a big human space flight program at NASA right now - the Artemis program - the goal of which is to get back to the moon. I'm curious what you make of the focus on ramping up spending for human spaceflight and how you think that affects that project.

MELROY: You know, I think human spaceflight is clearly the crown jewel of NASA. What we do - you know, the cornerstone is international partnerships. It's our industry partnerships and capabilities. And, you know, we show the world, when we do human space flight successfully, that we can do many hard things. That's why the focus is the way that it is. In addition to, you know, sort of existential competition with China at this point, who is, you know, trying very hard, too, you know, with their own space station permanently crewed, just like we have with our partners and going to the moon. But one of the challenges, I think, is this big focus on cutting both facilities and staff. I think it's going to cause real challenges for NASA. You need to keep the money flowing, and you need oversight, and you need experts in certification of human spacecraft. So cutting the people and the facilities is not going to get going any faster, and the money won't help solve that problem.

DETROW: That's Pamela Melroy, former deputy administrator of NASA during the Biden administration. Thank you so much.

MELROY: Thank you.

DETROW: We reached out to the White House and NASA for comment. A spokesperson at the White House Budget Office said that their proposed cuts are, quote, "refocusing NASA on its core mission and cutting the ineffective bloat that hasn't served the American public." And a NASA spokesperson told us that any reductions in staff will be designed to protect safety-critical roles. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

Michael Levitt
Michael Levitt is a news assistant for All Things Considered who is based in Atlanta, Georgia. He graduated from UCLA with a B.A. in Political Science. Before coming to NPR, Levitt worked in the solar energy industry and for the National Endowment for Democracy in Washington, D.C. He has also travelled extensively in the Middle East and speaks Arabic.
Scott Detrow is a White House correspondent for NPR and co-hosts the NPR Politics Podcast.
Henry Lawson