JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth says the Pentagon is looking into remarks made by Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. Last week, Kelly and five other Democratic lawmakers with military or intelligence backgrounds released a video saying that U.S. troops must not follow illegal orders.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
MARK KELLY: You can refuse illegal orders.
ELISSA SLOTKIN: You can refuse illegal orders.
CHRIS DELUZIO: You must refuse illegal orders.
SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our constitution.
SUMMERS: President Trump responded on social media that this was, quote, "seditious behavior punishable by death." But now one of the senators is facing the threat of court-martial by the Pentagon. NPR's Quil Lawrence is here to explain. Hi there.
QUIL LAWRENCE, BYLINE: Hi.
SUMMERS: Quil, start by reminding us exactly what that video was about. Why are all of these Democrats talking about illegal orders?
LAWRENCE: Well, there are two areas here. Judges have been ruling that some of the Trump administration's deployment of National Guard troops against the will of state governors is illegal. But there's also the ongoing lethal strikes against boats allegedly carrying drugs to the U.S. And that's another case where legal scholars and some European allies have said that they don't think these killings are legal. So this is six Democratic veteran lawmakers who are reiterating what troops, and especially officers, learn, is that you don't have to follow illegal orders and that, importantly, just following orders is not a defense for doing something illegal.
SUMMERS: Right. So do you have a sense of why the Pentagon is specifically focusing on Senator Kelly?
LAWRENCE: Yeah. Secretary Hegseth was very clear about this. Of all those six, Kelly is the only one who is formally retired from the military, and as such - he's a former navy captain, former combat pilot - so he can be recalled to active duty to face court-martial. But this would be unprecedented, I think. I spoke with military lawyer Kevin Carroll, who's a retired colonel, who served in the first Trump administration, and he said, the last thing even similar he could think of was in 1925 - so 100 years ago - but that was an active-duty officer. This is very different. And it seems, Carroll said, to be an attempt to silence political dissent.
KEVIN CARROLL: Doing this to a retiree who also happens to be, you know, a senator who was considered for the vice presidency and might potentially be a presidential candidate in 2028 is really a horse of a different color.
SUMMERS: Quil, has there been any response from Senator Kelly at this time?
LAWRENCE: Yes. He put out a statement. I'll quote it partially. He said, "Secretary Hegseth's tweet is the first I heard of this. I also saw the president's post saying I should be arrested, hanged and put to death. If this is meant to intimidate me and other members of Congress from doing our jobs and holding this administration accountable, it won't work." He also posted a photo on social media of his dress uniform with a chest full of medals, which I think largely is seen as a trolling of Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth who doesn't have any of the sort of combat medals that usually would be expected for someone of his position.
SUMMERS: Any sense of where all of this goes from here?
LAWRENCE: Well, the Pentagon said it was reviewing this. It's not clear they'll actually charge him or call him back to court-martial him, especially because all these Democrats did was state U.S. military code, but it's a tough spot for troops right now. NPR and others have reported that the Department of Justice has determined these boat strikes are legal, so these troops have to follow their orders. But already, the head of Southern Command has left his - is going to be leaving his post shortly. Four-star Admiral Alvin Holsey reportedly had qualms about these strikes. That's according to U.S. officials who are not authorized to speak publicly.
SUMMERS: NPR's Quil Lawrence. Thank you.
LAWRENCE: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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